By: debbie lynn elias
It’s never a dull day when I hang out with “my man” Anthony Mackie. Between interviews, red carpets and just bumping into each other around town over the years, we have a fun and entertaining rapport which bodes well for open, casual and high spirited hijinks and conversation (not to mention a few “I told you so’s” from me when it comes to The Hurt Locker). With Anthony in the thick of things right now with the upcoming Spirit Awards, the much anticipated Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter set for release this summer and the caper thriller Man On A Ledge opening January 27, not to mention the buzz with The Artist and Anthony’s own experience playing Buddy Bolden in two silent films, and a myriad of other films releasing, there’s a lot to talk about and catch up on. We recently had a chance to sit down and cover the gamut, particularly Man On A Ledge, of course while imbuing everything with laughter, much of which we owe to Anthony’s Ten Year co-star, Channing Tatum, who I happened to speak with earlier that same morning.
And while we talked about a myriad of subjects, the crux of the conversation revolved around Man On A Ledge and Anthony’s indelible performance as Mike Ackerman, cop and best friend to Sam Worthington’s Nick Cassidy, a man, on a ledge.
Debbie!
Hello again, dah-ling!
How you doing, baby?
Just got done seeing you a month ago!
I know, I’m a fast mover [laughing].
Well, I have a message for you.
What’s that?
Chan [Channing Tatum] said, “Hot Poiiint!” and “Darrrk-ness!” I just finished with him downstairs.
[laughing hysterically] Really? For what?
He’s here doing Haywire.
Oh, their junket is today? I have to stop down there.
I told him, “I know you two just finished a movie and I‘m leaving you to go to him [Mackie].”
I’m pissed with him because I begged him to be in the Magic Mike movie, and I wasn’t in it.
He talked about that movie. Why wouldn‘t he let you of all people be in it? You are a fine looking specimen.
I said, ”You need some chocolate shake in your movie.” I’m very pissed! [laughing]
What’s he got? Just a plain old bunch of vanilla?
I have no idea. I only know there’s McConaughey. That’ all I know. It’s cool.
McConaughey has a flat ass…
But he has the body of a Greek god.
They didn’t ask him to be in Immortals!
[laughing] They didn’t! They sure didn’t!
Well, let’s get serious. I have to say, I love, love this film, Man On A Ledge.
Thank you so much.
I had no clue going in what your character was going to be. Oooooh!
[laughing] It’s a lot of fun. Asger [Leth] was kind of able to put things in perspective in a way that really works with the movie. I think a lot of times filmmakers in general get caught up trying to make something out of nothing instead of making the film that’s on the page. I feel like when you watch this movie, Asger trimmed all of the fat off. He took everything that wasn’t about a man on a ledge and he took it off, took it out of the movie. And because of that you have this train ride. I feel like it goes back to those movies that were made in the 90’s like Beverly Hills Cop, Lethal Weapon, action type movies where the suspense was actually suspenseful.
I think it goes back even further because I kept getting the vibe of a 1930’s, 1940’s, film noir sensibility.
Exactly. Exactly. Now, it’s funny, because I think of [Man On A Ledge] as a suspense thriller. I feel like now, all the suspense movies I’ve seen in the past ten years just haven’t been suspenseful or they’ve been so intellectually stimulating that I just didn’t get ’em. This was the first time – when I read the script and I talked to Asger – he got it. He’s like, “This movie’s about the characters. If we can make the characters work, by the time the movie gets to the end, the audience will get it.” And that’s ultimately what you want.
It‘s so cleverly done with the two plot points. You‘ve got an allegedly innocent man. You have a best friend whose heart is breaking as he’s sitting there with Worthington‘s character in jail. “Oh man. I got a call from your brother. Your dad is dying.”
[Mackie is laughing his ass off during this]
You see that Sam Worthington’s Nick is visibly shaken and you, as Mike, are so sincere. And then as the story develops and you hear little clues like “You can’t trust the people closest to you.” Well, the person closest to Nick is Mike. A lot of people at the screening I was at didn‘t pick up on that while my wheels started turning, wondering “What‘s Anthony doing here?”
Ahhh! Well that’s what Asger and I talked about. You never want to “play” the ending at the beginning. For me, it’s very important that Mike Ackerman comes across as the guy who’s trying to help his friend, clear as night. Because anything other than that and it’s not suspenseful. There’s a thin line between good and bad, right and wrong. So when you look at this character, no one is completely innocent and no one is completely guilty. You never really know where people are coming from. That was something that was important to me with this character; to walk that line and walk it truthfully where audience members would ask the question of “Who is this guy and how does he fit into this?”. And that was Asger’s ultimate goal as well, is to ask that question, “How does [Ackerman] fit into this?”
When you first read the script did you see in advance where Mike Ackerman was going in this story?
No, no I didn’t. When we were talking about it, I wanted to play up the fact that he was truly and is truly [Nick’s] friend and his ultimate goal, no matter what the consequences, is to get his friend out of his jail. His dad’s dying, his brother’s in trouble, they’re losing the house. All this stuff is falling apart since [Nick] went to jail. Sam [Worthington] and I got together and came up with this backstory and it worked. Sam’s a guy’s guy. He’s a really easy guy to get along with, like most Australian dudes are. All they want to do is drink and fight! [laughing] So, we’d get along really well and I think that’s what came across in the characters in the film.
You‘ve really had a lot of more “toned down” performances since The Hurt Locker. Has this been a conscious decision to expand your portfolio since then? You had a great body of work both on stage and on film before The Hurt Locker, but that really pushed you and Jeremy [Renner] right up there.
It’s been really important since The Hurt Locker to continue to do compelling good work. Jeremy and I are still really good friends and talk to each other a bunch. He’s on a different plateau now. He’s reached that level of celebrity stardom. One thing we’ve always talked about – I was a huge fan of his before The Hurt Locker and he was a fan of mine. We worked together and now subsequently since The Hurt Locker came out, we’re still fans of each other and we still go to the movies and support each other’s work. I feel like good work begets good work. You have to make strategic choices in this business or else you just look like someone that needs work.
You definitely don’t look like someone who just “needs work.” You‘ve been making very good choices.
[Laughing] Thank you. This business, I say, is 75% luck, 20% representation and 5% talent. I’ve been really lucky to have the people on my team that get what you have to put in to make a Black actor in Hollywood successful. Sometimes that means saying “no” a lot more than saying “yes.” Saying “no” to a lot of bigger projects when you’ve got The Hurt Locker sitting on the table. I said “no” to some pretty big projects to do The Hurt Locker. It’s all about the sacrifice.
Now, just to remind you…who, but me, said so early on to all of you that it would win the Best Picture Oscar?
[laughing] I didn’t!
You all laughed at me!
I bet money on Avatar. I bet money that Avatar would win!. Hollywood added ten films to Best Picture for the big blockbuster to win. Avatar was the blockbuster of blockbusters. How could it not win?
Because maybe some people actually don’t like blockbusters.
And that’s what we’re seeing this year. We’re looking at it. The numbers are down. People aren’t going to the movies. It’s kind of like an industry that’s feeding on itself. You have the movie lover and you have the movie profiteers. It’s like politics. Until those two groups get on the same page, it will always be Hollywood trying to catch itself. No matter what – the Great Depression, war – it never hurt or stifled Hollywood’s success. And now, all of a sudden because Hollywood’s become big business and it’s geared toward 16 year old boys and 14 year old girls, it leaves the people who are paying for films out in the cold. I don’t want to go see a movie about werewolves and guys running around in their underwear. My favorite vampire movie was The Lost Boys.
That is still my favorite along with Nosferatu.
All those vampires were sexy and strong and they were “guys”.
But there was great subtext as to who they were.
Right. 100%.
Which is a lot of what you do with your characters. There‘s always this great subtext.
I think one thing that I wanted to do that Asger helped me with in this film was the idea of making Mike Ackerman three-dimensional. Whether your character is the good guy or the bad guy, you have to have secrets that you keep away from other people to show what you like, what you donft like what you enjoy. We all have feelings about everything around us. If you ask me a question about my character, I should know his favorite color, who’s the first girl he kissed, where he went to elementary school. Because is I ask you that, you know that. So if you know that about yourself and I’m creating a guy, I should know that about him.
All kidding aside now, what is the greatest gift that acting has given you?
The ability to listen. I think as an actor the most important thing you can do is listen. The hardest thing you can do as an actor is to listen. You know what you’re gonna say. You know how you’re gonna say it. You’ve rehearsed it. But when you put yourself in a room with another actor or another person, they might say something that informs the way you say your line, so you HAVE to listen to every word they say. I feel like being a young man in America and dating, dealing with the opposite sex [laughing]…
That‘s why I quit dating!
The idea of listening can be a powerful tool. Acting has given me the ability to just listen.
So, what’s this film with you and Channing [Tatum]?
Ten Year. A friend of mine, Jamie Linden, who wrote We Are Marshall and Dear John with Channing – he wrote a movie about a ten year reunion. It played up at Toronto Film Festival and did well. We had a lot of fun shooting. Channing, Brian Geraghty, who was in We Are Marshall and The Hurt Locker with me, and there was Kate Mara who was in We Are Marshall, Rudy Mara’s sister. We just had a good time shooting it. It was a bunch of friends coming together for three weeks to make a movie, for a friend, about a reunion. Jamie was like, “I wrote a script. I need to call in some favors.” And we were all like, “Three weeks? Okay! All the bourbon you want for three weeks in Mexico.” [laughing]
You‘re happy!
[laughing] See what I mean! I’ll be there. How many scenes? Two? I’ll be there for three weeks!
So, will I see you at the Spirit Awards?
Definitely! If I don’t come across you, I’ll see you in July for Abraham Lincoln.
Good. I am looking forward to that one.
Everyone is like, “What the fuck is this?”!
And you play?
William H. Johnson. In real life, Abraham Lincolnfs best friend was William H. Johnson. William H. Johnson grew up with Abraham Lincoln and became his caddy and chauffeur. On the way back from Gettysburg he dies of smallpox. Abraham Lincoln paid with money out of his own pocket for him to be buried in Arlington Cemetery. And on his headstone, Abraham Lincoln had put, “William H. Johnson, Citizen.” So I get to play William H. Johnson.
And when you die we’ll put on your headstone, Anthony Mackie…”
Citizen. [laughing]
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